General Tech Why did MGB's come with oil coolers but Triumph's didn't?

[karls59tr]

Did the tractor motor run cooler than the "B" lump?

 

[Geo Hahn]

Lots of differences, here's one that might be relevant:

The TR engine sump (w/ filter change) takes 11 Imperial pints which is about 6.6 US quarts.

A Google search suggests that an MGB w/o an oil cooler takes about 3.5 US quarts. About a quart more if there is an oil cooler fitted.

 

[sp53]

They could not figure out how to make it leak oil. That is the same reason the British do not build refrigerators; they can not figure out how to make them leak oil either.

 

[titanic]

Did the tractor motor run cooler than the "B" lump?

I have often pondered that question, when suffering from insomnia.
You would think that the MG would run hotter because of its smaller capacity and operating closer to the max. output. But the temp. gauge usually shows the opposite. My TR3s always seem to run hotter than the 185 "normal" and the MGs never seem to run hot. However, overheating never seemed to damage the TR, whereas the MG would crack its head at the first opportunity. Maybe that was a factor for the decision to fit oil coolers on the MGB. I do wonder about the wisdom to fit oil coolers without a thermostat, especially in cooler climates.
Berry

 

[TomMull]

Lots of differences, here's one that might be relevant:

The TR engine sump (w/ filter change) takes 11 Imperial pints which is about 6.6 US quarts.

A Google search suggests that an MGB w/o an oil cooler takes about 3.5 US quarts. About a quart more if there is an oil cooler fitted.

This logic is spot on. The 6.6 quart sump is an oil cooler.
I think MG might have added the oil cooler for promotional as well as engineering reasons. All the fast racers had them. Having said that though, oil coolers have shown their worth over the decades.
Tom

 

[Geo Hahn]

This logic is spot on. The 6.6 quart sump is an oil cooler...

E-Types take 9 quarts (yeah, more than 2 gallons). They also have a finned alloy sump. Never seen one with an oil cooler.

Maybe that's just how they did things in Coventry.

 

[Tybalt]

From what I understand the oil cooler was an option on the earliest MGBs before becoming standard fitment. Then a funny thing happened with the 1974 1/2 (first big rubber bumper cars) MGBs. While the roadsters kept the oil cooler and front anti-roll bar (IIRC), the MGB GT lost those and I recall the BL rep for our zone stating that they added enough weight to the slightly heavier GTs that they could not get them emission certified if they were included. Even with those removed they could not get the GT certified for the 1975 model year so those 1974 1/2 GTs were the last ones officially available in the North American market.

Funniest thing (to me) that he ever showed or told us was related to the "MG - Still One Jump Ahead" ad campaign (1973?) where they parachuted an MGB on a skid out of the back of a C-130, along with a parachuting soon to be driver. In the ad, he lands by the car, unstraps it from the skid and drives away as other non-BL sports cars attempt to catch it. He had some still pictures from the the ad filming, including several from the first attempt at the ad. Guess what didn't open on the first filming attempt, yep, that's right. Included were a couple of still photos showing a Damask Red MGB, shiny side down and compressed to about 18" high.

 

[JerryVV]

Just my personal experience with a TR4A. I do have the finned aluminum sump. I run a 180 thermostat and have one of Richard Goods radiator shrouds (which incidentally is an excellently designed item and highly recommended by me). Highway / Interstate 65+ speeds my engine runs at or just above 185 and oil sometimes sees 220. It drops quickly once off the Interstate. Around town I can't get the oil hot enough. You'd like to see 220 or higher according to what I've read but I rarely see anything above 180 which is actually too low.


In my case I have trouble getting the oil hot enough so with a stock oil pan and the right cooling my guess is an oil cooler is not necessary for normal use on the 4 cylinder TR's.

 

[arcom]

6.6 quarts in a stock TR6?

 

[Geo Hahn]

6.6 quarts in a stock TR6?

The OP was asking about 'the tractor motor' which usually refers to the wet-sleeve 4 cylinder of the TR2-4. I think a TR6 is more in the neighborhood of 5 qts.

 

[arcom]

The OP was asking about 'the tractor motor' which usually refers to the wet-sleeve 4 cylinder of the TR2-4. I think a TR6 is more in the neighborhood of 5 qts.

OK, makes more sense. Thanks.

 

[Bob Claffie]

Is it possible that they were two different companies ? Standard Triumph and Morris Garage before the giant British auto industry consolidation.

 

[Geo Hahn]

Different companies, different towns, different lots of things.

Though they shared many parts (e.g. items from the Lucas parts bins) the various marques all had there ways of doing things to produce the car they believed their buyers wanted. Healeys, MGs, Triumphs, Jaguars, etc -- it went way beyond looks. They even each sounded different and smelled different.

 

[sp53]

I like your logic Tom. When I was in high school, some of guys on their 55, 56, and 57 chevs would cut the oil pans off at the bottom and add a section to create a large volume oil pan in the auto shop. The teacher said they were thoughtless and only increased the amount of oil needed for an oil change. No one brought up your point of the larger capacity helping to cool the oil. It makes sense and I like it.

 

[TRMark]

ISTR seeing a photo of an oil pan with a section added and tubes open at the ends running through the pan lengthwise to provide additional cooling.

 

[GTP1960]

ISTR seeing a photo of an oil pan with a section added and tubes open at the ends running through the pan lengthwise to provide additional cooling.

Revington has a system like that.
it is mentioned in Roger Williams book "How to improve Triumph TR2-4A" pg 124.

 

[TRMark]

THAT'S where I saw it. I have the book on my "car" shelf.

 

[GTP1960]

THAT'S where I saw it. I have the book on my "car" shelf.

Niel Revington makes some strong points in favor of his cooling tubes, in that chapter:
(paraphrase.) " oil coolers are unnecessary except for competitive cars & very hot climates, because they are just something else to go wrong & reduce airflow to the engine radiator. "

However I don't like the idea of cutting a large port in the crosspiece for flow thru air. Installing a duct system below the cross piece further reduces your ground clearance. So it seems like this is a simple problem with a not so simple solution.